188体育

Meeting time

10am to 3pm

Meeting location

Mount Site, Taunton, Somerset

Attendance

• Chris Rose聽(CR)聽Vice-Chair聽鈥撀燙hair聽
• Duncan Tilley (DT)聽鈥� Note taker
• 骋补谤谤测听笔颈迟丑别谤听(骋笔)
• Natasha MASON (NM)
• Guy聽Williams (GW)
• Leigh Bowen (LB)
• Ash Jones (AJ)

Apologies

Apologies for absence were received from 8 members:

• Jeff Spencer - Chair (JS)聽
• Anica Alvarez Nishio (AAN)
• David Wood (DW)
• Hamilton Elliott (HE)
• Kieran Bird (KB)
• Tony Thompson (TT)
• Andrew Ottaway (AO)
• Iain Henderson聽(IH)
• Rachael Brannagan (RB)聽
• Franklin聽Owusu-Antwi (FOA)
• 骋补谤谤测听笔颈迟丑别谤听(骋笔)
• Ash Jones (AJ)
• Philip Orr (PO)
• Barry Firth (BF)
• Michael Bryan (MB)聽had聽recently returned to聽Oxford,聽UK from聽academic secondment in the USA聽and had an updated email address (available on request).

奥别濒肠辞尘别听(颁搁)

Welcomed all attendees and hoped all had聽received a copy of the聽agenda.

Chatham House rules

Reiterated, with a request that the intended confidentiality of anything discussed as being 鈥榦ff the record鈥� or of an intrinsically sensitive/personal nature be respected as such, and if mentioned outside the VAPC perimeter should not be attributed to VAPC or an individual attendee of this meeting.

Conflicts of interest

While the VAPC-SW Committee recognises the importance of avoiding聽conflicts of interest, it聽also recognises benefits drawn from the lived experience of its聽members. We, therefore, operate a policy of naming and noting any activities or聽experiences which could be considered conflicts, while concurrently actively drawing upon聽the widest experiences of its members to inform its work. At all times we endeavour to聽clarify explicitly when members are acting on behalf of the committee and when they are聽acting as private individuals.

No conflicts of interest declared.

Review and acceptance of minutes of last quarterly meeting聽held on 29 May 2024

Actions outstanding not covered elsewhere were noted and remarked upon by聽CR, but otherwise set aside聽in light of聽the聽relatively聽low attendance and absence of the Chair.

Chair鈥檚 update

CR聽provided an update聽on聽UK聽strategic issues聽discussed at聽the previous week鈥檚 meeting of the Regional Chairs group in London. JS attended, representing the SW, and CR聽as the National Vice Chair. 聽Russ Eagan from the UK Digital Team had given a presentation聽on聽the new AFCS聽digital forms聽and offers an update for all VAPC members at 14.00 on 20 November; members were encouraged to attend this online presentation.

Action:

All VAPC SW members.聽聽

Background work聽had聽taken聽place on a generic survey to be handed to veterans for them to complete and return; after discussion with聽experts聽from聽FiMT, it was decided not to proceed with this until further research had been conducted. Some concern was expressed regarding the importance of understanding where, when and under what circumstances聽service personnel聽were transitioning, as this was seen necessary for the survey to get 鈥榯raction鈥�. 聽The 2024 Draft VAPC Regional Group TORs had been distributed to Chairs;聽CR agreed to share the draft outside of the meeting.聽PMN:聽These were shared by CR by email.

Regarding the change of national government and opportunities to meet the new聽Veteran鈥檚 Minister, Al Carns MP, conversations were beginning, but the聽UK聽Chairs were still awaiting an invitation to meet the Minister and hear his views/direction.聽聽CR briefed that聽UK聽Chairs felt they had a good relationship with聽Hd聽AF and VS, Brig Pat Wright who had been聽appointed聽to the role earlier聽in 2024, vice Brig Caroline Hull. The聽UK Committee of VAPC Chairs鈥櫬燙hair of Chairs聽is meeting with聽Hd聽AF and VS聽regularly. It was understood by the聽UK Chairs聽that OVA will move under MOD as part of the Movement Across Government (MAG) work now being undertaking across Whitehall. Members were advised that the OVA now numbers ~200 policy creation staff, up from 30-40 in 2022. The disparity between this growth and the 80-odd vacancies in capacity to delivering on those policies from Norcross (Veterans UK/AF and VS) was noted with concern.

CR advised that聽some of the staff in聽the AFC Team in MOD are changing and VAPC will need to find, and are seeking, engagement at the appropriate level within MOD.

The VAPC Act was passed by Parliament last year and secondary Legislation was to start in Nov 2023 with VAPC getting together with聽MOD staff in a joint WG. This took 3 months to get going聽by which time VAPC had prepared a draft paper which was provided prior to the change of national government. This work聽needs to be considered alongside聽the 170 recommendations emanating from the overarching Veteran Strategy review聽and the AFCS and VAPC QQRs聽which the new government is still pondering.聽The Minister鈥檚 intent to develop a one stop shop for veterans to access support would also include a 鈥榬eview of reviews鈥� with an expectation of a way ahead being developed by the end of 2024/early 2025. NB, it is assessed that there is聽little聽chance of extra funding;聽indeed聽cuts to resources might mean losses of current capacity across the board. VAPC are included in this review, though we are exceptionally 鈥榗heap鈥� and considered good VFM.聽

Afternote: the Autumn Budget had announced a 拢2.9bn increase for Defence; it is not known if any of this would be provided for Veteran support.聽

In the聽meantime聽the 2021 VAPC TORs have been extended to cover the current聽lack of strategic clarity聽and updated to some degree whilst we await direction from Minister on the future role (requirement) for VAPC. Until that is forthcoming we must carry on as we are awaiting the secondary legislation聽and review of our 10 years out-of-date Handbook. As the two go hand in hand,聽CR鈥檚 Handbook rewrite聽is also in limbo for now. 聽It is acknowledged the current Handbook does not cover聽a range of recent structural changes, including a聽more collegiate approach聽between VAPC regions聽and聽the role of the聽UK聽Chair of VAPC Chairs. It has out-of-date guidance for Members on what they should and should not do.

CR discussed the recruitment of Chairs, noting聽that the current Chair of聽VAPC EM would carry on聽until a successor is found.聽Recruitment is on hold for the England Veterans鈥� Commissioner and VAPC NI聽and EM聽Chairs, pending the Minister鈥檚 position being revealed. 聽Wales and Scotland Commissioners are to remain in post until聽further聽notice.聽With respect to recruiting for SW Members, it is assumed the next recruitment campaign will likely be in 2025 and members were asked to begin scouting for possible future members and co-optees.聽There will be more discussion on this at the next聽SW VAPC聽Meeting.

Actions:

CR to circulate to SW Members: the minutes of the most聽recent聽UK聽CVC聽Meeting when available; Updated 2024 TORs (done); Requirement/Target dates for Report to Minister (by the end of 2024)聽鈥� see below for proposed dates:

• 15聽Jan: initial SW VAPC members inputs to JS/CR/AAN聽at SW VAPC Quarterly
• 31 Jan: final inputs from SW VAPC members
• 1-12 Feb: SW VAPC report drafting
• 13-17 Feb: SW VAPC report reviewed by members and comments provided
• 19 Feb: final SW VAPC report locked
• 20 Feb: VAPC regional reports to Annual Report (AR) drafting team (DT)聽
• 28 Feb: first draft submitted by DT for chairs
• 6 Mar: comments from chairs to DT
• 11 Mar: revised version of AR to chairs from DT
• 18 Mar: final chairs comments to DT
• 25 Mar: AR locked and ready to send.

(CR)聽Annual Report聽(AR)聽to Minister in聽Spring聽2025

CR聽drew attention to the first actions, noting that the first iteration of this new annual cycle needs聽to culminate in a SW VAPC Annual Report being provided to National Chairs聽early in 2025 so they must be submitted for agreement聽and聽agreed聽NLT聽the January聽2025 quarterly meeting.聽To achieve this the AR will be a standing agenda item on the next聽two monthly virtual meetings.

AFCS

CR highlighted the bi-monthly AF and VS Performance meetings which any VAPC Member can attend. 聽CR can provide details to anyone who is interested. The main brief starts at 2pm but there is a 1.30pm pre-meet for VAPC attendees.聽LB had attended a meeting and advised that data-sharing was the focus, not queries regarding what the data highlights or conjecture about what the data means. The data may not meet VAPC interest聽with聽a typical AF veteran鈥檚 Lived Experience.

CR asked about statistics regarding Veterans as he was interested in knowing what additional statistics/data聽(other than those currently recorded, reported and analysed by AF and VS staff) VAPC would be interested in having access to. He wondered whether there was scope for MB to be tasked with looking at the stats in detail, now he is back in UK. A discussion took place amongst some of those present concerning the numbers of claimants under WP/AFCS who accept the first assessment figure and how many are unhappy, either initially or down the line, as well as how many refuse the first offer and proceed to a formal challenge of their assessment.聽Dissatisfaction may be linked in certain cases with unrealistic expectations reflected on social media.

CR advised that AFCS聽issues聽will, for now,聽be informally addressed聽at the UK CVC through separate focussed meetings. SW should continue to gather data locally where we can (both 鈥榞ood鈥� and 鈥榖ad鈥� news).

GP shared that a new Taunton Armed聽Forces聽Veterans聽Breakfast聽Club聽had been established, led by Eddy Cullen and meeting in the Taunton Golf Club.聽VAPC members local to Taunton were encouraged to attend.

The MOD Digitisation team鈥檚 Statement of Requirement聽for a proper digital solution聽for the VAPC (email accounts, secure data storage, etc) shows that progress is being made in this area at last.聽

Afternote:聽Dates of Birth of VAPC members will be needed for these MOD email addresses to be obtained.

GP noted the 鈥榠ncredible churn at the top鈥� of AF and VS 聽-聽discussion of who 鈥榦wns鈥� Norcross and can get a grip on the issues there to move them forward. 聽Head AF and VS had settled in and聽is聽providing聽1* oversight and聽direction and it was noted that the聽Deputy聽Head聽had聽been in post for many years and provides some聽continuity.

VAPC鈥檚 role as聽critical聽friend to聽AF and VS/Veterans UK was again discussed, noting VAPCs can provide feedback聽to AF and VS聽on the realities faced by veterans as we encounter them to help the understaffed civil servants to focus manpower to best effect聽and also聽as a training aid for staff including the MOs and others in the assessment chain.

GW noted the empirical evidence he was aware of that indicated a high number of possible claimants do not even start with the聽AFCS or War Pension聽process as they feel it will inevitably fail them.

NM noted that VWS were going out聽(within their limited available T and S)聽around Devon and Cornwall but have now been told that the low numbers of pre-booked attendees/clients at veteran drop-in centres was evidence to suggest site visits were not an efficient use of VWS resources. 聽The Drop-In centre model was specifically intended to negate the advance booking requirement, so there were bound to be very low pre-booking numbers, thus the policy outlined above聽risked being聽a self-fulfilling prescription of failure.

Housing

OP FORTITUDE 鈥� The meeting was advised that only single聽AF Veterans were able to be assisted; those with dependent family members (spouse/children聽under direct care) could not be assisted as it聽lay beyond聽OP FORTITUDE鈥檚 formal聽remit聽due to serious Safeguarding concerns, which seemed inappropriate and would need addressing at UK level.聽聽

Actions:

JS/CR.

Local Authorities

(LB)聽Hugh James hearing brief

LB first briefed the meeting on the HJ Matrix (AF Hearing Loss claims parameters agreed between HJ and MOD legal teams).

LB then briefed the meeting on聽a recent聽Conference, attended by JS聽and LB聽where聽RN Sea King and other Rotary Wing Craft Efflux claims聽were presented.

Detailed notes on these briefings to be circulated separately due to the sensitive nature of the discussions.

(All)

CR briefed that VAPC have been invited to consider replicating the MOD鈥檚 previous Veterans鈥� Lived Experience events, which were both held in London. 聽Suggestions were that SW VAPC could run something along the lines of the 2021 Veteran鈥檚聽Forum held to coincide with Cornwall hosting AFD and convened by SW VAPC at RAF ST MAWGAN. Could we host another similar f2f conference in 2025? Would a virtual Lived Experience event be better? 聽Should regions go it alone or get together to stage national Lived Experience event(s) for the UK or the Nations (England/Scotland/Wales/NI)

NM noted that attempts to gather Veterans鈥� Lived Experience through staged events tend to attract organisations not individuals and tend to elicit overwhelmingly only the negative experiences. 聽Would it be better to facilitate an on-line/paper national survey of Veterans鈥� Lived Experiences?聽Overall聽there was little appetite for running a f2f conference for the SW only and a limited desire to run a virtual conference; neither option was likely to gather sufficient and balanced views.聽There was general support for continuing to engage with veterans and veteran-facing organisations, charities, LA etc. These were able to sift out trends and concerns.聽A 鈥楳eta-Survey鈥� of previous surveys was mooted.

VAPC needs to address the 2 Ministerial Questions set by the previous聽MinAF聽and the best way to do so was not yet agreed. 聽Members were asked to set their minds to how we might go about聽this, and聽be ready to feed back at the next virtual meeting or direct to the Chair/Vice Chair in the interim.聽聽

Actions:

All.

Prioritisation of pre-report activities聽(CR/All)聽

CR advised聽that聽this topic聽and planned inputs from all VAPC SW members into the Annual Report聽had already been covered.

Any other business

CR thanked GW and through him the catering and admin staff for use of the facilities and arranging/laying out lunch.

GW alerted the meeting to the next Somerset AF Covenant聽Meeting聽next Wednesday聽at Canalside,聽Bridgewater.

Big Breakfast 2 being arranged at RNAS CULDROSE Sat 23 Nov. 聽All VAPC Members who can spare the time are requested to support IH in his efforts to support veterans in Cornwall by attending this event.

Dates of next meetings

2024 monthly meetings

• Tue 19 November, 5.30pm to 7pm via Zoom
• Tue 17 December, 5.30pm to 7pm via Zoom

2025 quarterly meetings

All meetings will be held in Taunton all day, with pre-meets on Tue 14 January in the afternoon.

• Wed 15 January - TBC
• Wed 16 April
• Wed 16 July
• Wed 15聽October

Quarterly in-person meetings

JS聽has previously asked聽that all Members prioritise attending SW VAPC quarterly聽meetings, in-person if at all possible.

Members鈥� suggestions are sought for guest speaker(s) at monthly聽and聽quarterly meetings