188体育

Members present via video conference

Independent Chair

Julia Mulligan

PABEW Secretariat

Chris Moore

Police Federation of England and Wales (PFEW)

• John Partington

• Melanie Warnes

• Bahar Munim

Police Superintendents鈥� Association (PSA)

• Dan Murphy

• Warren Franklin

Chief Police Officers鈥� Staff Association (CPOSA)

• Gareth Wilson

• Shabir Hussain

National Police Chiefs鈥� Council (NPCC)

• Stella Brooks

• Andy Fittes

• Clair Alcock

• Kevin Courtney

Home Office (HO)

Tom Appleyard

College of Policing (CoP)

• Sandy Purewal

• Thomas Grove

Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC)

Stephen Oakley

Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC)

Andrew Tremayne

His Majesty鈥檚 Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services (HMICFRS)

Lois Ainger

Met Trade Union

Valerie Harris

Welcome and apologies

1. The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting and noted apologies from Kathie Cashell (IOPC) and Duncan Slade (PSA).

Minutes of the meeting 30 April 2024

2. Minutes were agreed from the 30 April 2024 meeting.

Action log of 30 April 2024

3. The Chair said the action was on the agenda and would be covered shortly.

4. Tom Appleyard (HO) noted that as there was a new government, it was not possible to provide a delivery timeline as ministers were still adjusting to their new roles and the policy details of the different areas. The earliest expected time to talk through pension plans would be in early September. He felt it would make more sense to take the matter into the SAB.

5. The Chair agreed to remit the action to the SAB and observed her action to brief the ministers on the work of the various boards may aid understanding of the pension area.

NPCC Update: Guidance on Police Officer and Staff Secondments

6. Andy Fittes (NPCC) explained the latest version of the secondments guidance (V8) was circulated and was accepted by all members of PABEW.

7. The majority were grammatical; such as 鈥榟ome force鈥� changed to 鈥楬ome Force鈥�.

8. Other changes were suggested ordering changes and the removal of repetition in the text. Lastly there were legal points such as removing words like 鈥榚mployer鈥� when talking about police officers.

9. Andy Fittes (NPCC) said he would circulate the legal comments version and a new clean version shortly after the meeting for members.

10. Lois Ainger (HMICFRS) inquired about customising the template agreement to fit specific organisational needs, such as handling annual leave and remote access workers.

11. Andy Fittes (NPCC) agreed to discuss modifications via email and a follow-up meeting. He emphasised the need to preserve the document鈥檚 intent while accommodating unique requirements.

12. The Chair stressed the importance of not substantially altering the document and suggested marking specific changes for HMICFRS instead.

13. Lois Ainger and Andy Fittes (NPCC) agreed to discuss modifications offline.

14. Sandy Purewal (CoP) queried about the timeline for implementing legal changes to the secondment agreement and whether it would align with the next PABEW quarterly review.

15. Andy Fittes (NPCC) said the plan was to circulate the updated version in the next week. If feedback was positive, an effective start date could be set. If extensive comments are received, additional time woud be required.

16. The Chair stressed the need to finalise changes without reopening previous discussions.

17. Andy Fittes (NPCC) said that the content will remain largely unchanged, focusing on clarity and factual accuracy.

18. John Partington (PFEW) raised concerns about the lack of explicit mentions of working time, traveling time, and overtime in the agreement, referencing past issues with member claims.

19. Andy Fittes (NPCC) said he was committed to addressing these concerns by ensuring regulatory compliance in the updated document.

20. Warren Franklin (PSA) highlighted issues with temporary promotions during secondment, seeking clarity on the vetting process and home force support.

21. Andy Fittes (NPCC) said there would be tighter wording on temporary promotions based on legal advice.

Police Pensions: UK Police Pensions Consultative Forum & Scheme Advisory Board Update

Remedy implementation 鈥� NPCC Pension Team

22. The Chair recalled the meeting on 4th July highlighting an update on the remedy from the NPCC pension team.

23. She noted the key discussion points from the update included deferred payments of contributions and potential incentives for earlier payment to avoid additional costs.

24. At the meeting, NPCC had noted changes to the police pension website and also stressed the need for simplified communication with the Minister regarding tax relief.

25. Clair Alcock (NPCC) added the Economic Secretary signed the initial communication on the tax issue and HMRC guidance on tax relief is imminent.

26. Active members would receive active tax relief, avoiding the need for 55,000 members to self-assess. Non-active mechanism will be easier to administer, with annual benefit statements signposting these changes.

27. The discussion with HMT on interest rate caps was continuing with no formal response yet. NPCC had also published additional communications to help members understand contribution adjustments and remedial service statements.

28. Dan Murphy (PSA) thanked Clair Alcock (NPCC) and the team for addressing the tax relief issue, noting its potential significant impact.

29. He asked about the readiness of NPCC software providers and administrators to reflect tax relief and interest adjustments by August.

30. Clair Alcock (NPCC) confirmed the current RSS template does not show tax relief, requiring a separate process for members to request this information.

Ministerial first 100-day briefing

31. The Chair said she had asked for any specific points that members wanted to make to be emailed and hadn鈥檛 received anything to date. She said a reminder would be send out with a deadline for Friday 9th of August. She noted it was not a wish list. But it was important to set out what the group of meetings was working on and what the priorities were for members.

PABEW Discipline Sub-Committee Update

Home Office Update

32. The Chair noted the DSC meeting was held on 18th July 2024.

33. The Chair said Michael Cordy (HO) made an attendance and provided a helpful update that explained the Tranche 2 Regulations were delayed due to the awaiting of ministerial input, allowing more time for members to review issued materials.

34. A Consultation period of 6 to 8 weeks suggested and deemed helpful by DSC members.

35. The Chair noted Michael Cordy (HO) took an action to write to the subcommittee before the next meeting with updates.

Pay Progression Standard (PPS)

36. Andy Fittes (NPCC) provided an update on what had been covered on PPS at the last DSC meeting.

37. He said the criteria for constables on an incremental pay scale include having an appraisal and not being under unsatisfactory performance procedures. Supervisors must complete appraisals for those they line manage.

38. He discussed the potential inclusion of conduct criteria in the PPS, with initial internal discussions taking place.

39. He noted at the meeting there was feedback received regarding concerns about double jeopardy, the length of the process, and the potential for disproportionate penalties.

40. Melanie Warnes (PFEW) stressed the need for a regulation change if conduct is to be included, as it would introduce a new sanction. She noted financial penalties were removed around 20 years ago.

41. Andy Fittes (NPCC) agreed that a regulation change would be needed but clarified it would be to the pay progression standard determinations, not the conduct regulations.

42. He emphasised that it was currently an internal discussion with no immediate changes planned.

43. Dan Murphy (PSA) questioned the driver for this change, noting resistance from staff associations and lack of clear strategic need.

44. Stella Brooks (NPCC) Explained that the review is part of ongoing efforts to monitor and evaluate existing systems.

45. She noted the importance of considering the entire package of pay and progression standards holistically.

46. John Partington (PFEW) expressed concerns about the rationale and need for the proposed changes. He suggested that the PABEW should have a clear view on this matter not just the sub-committee.

47. Andy Fittes (NPCC) acknowledged the need for careful consideration and consultation. But said that there are parallels in other public sectors where payments can be withheld for not meeting certain criteria.

Home Office Legislation Update

48. The Chair said the item was just for noting, no members provided comments.

AOB

49. The next meeting was scheduled for 29 October 2024.